If Broly was on Beerus'level, you would think the least he can do is gravely injure Frieza? Beerus power level at 1 percent is 30 million. Really, nothing to compare to Jiren and Toppo's feats, nor Mastered UI and C). I don't want any vague BS or excuses or any other useless comparisons from a stupid gag episode. The same can't be said while fighting Broly. @karkus: I never said Beerus stomps Broly. Even base super goku solostomps GT. The fight between SSJ3 Goku and Beerus was one-sided, but Goku could still track Beerus's movements for the most part. Find me proof, all you doing is delaying the inevitable. He was comparing Jiren to Beerus'power as a God of Destruction at that time when he said that, naturally because he is Beerus' teacher and mentor, so he knows his strengths and weaknesses. @tony501: Belmod is stronger than Beerus. Goku said that Beerus while sleeping is using his unretstrained power or that in the [Majin Buu arc] he said that he could take out Kid Buu, but his body gave up on him and during the entire fight Kid Buu and Goku SSJ3 was on par with each other. Quotes? ... least equal to Gogeta if not stronger since Beerus wasn't even that interested even when he sensed both Broly's and Gogeta's power. Super never stated how many %% Beerus was using, so he could he using 20% - 30% as an incredibly rough estimate. Furthermore, Full power SSJ Broly couldn’t even land a single finger on Gogeta once he used SSB. Unlikely and probably both show something is possible, but the latter connotes that it's more likely than the former. Broly didn’t reach full power until his fight with SSJ Gogeta. Perhaps Gogeta could damage him, but I just think that he's above him. I can't wait for the day we see a serious Beerus. @karkus: Might and Probably are the same? R2: Depends on whether Gogeta Blue held back against Broly or not. In the movie, just the standard Super Saiyan power-up was enough for him to beat the crap out of Frieza for about an hour and it took the combined might of both Vegeta and Goku (literally) to finally take the big beast down. @thelostshinobi: Repeat thread, but welcome anyway. Again, you literally have no proof whatsoever. Then Gogeta f*#ed around on Broly, so that puts Gogeta around Beerus level aswell, maybe above it, but its safest to say that he's 'around' that level. SSJ4 Gogeta vs. Beerus. this scaling are based off the official statements. I didn't even watch all of Super yet and Beerus seems more impressive to me. This means ssg goku was around 2,100,000,000. Although, there were statements outside the show saying Broly was stronger than a God of Destruction. Frieza was still in his transformation and he was not even fatally wounded. He only said "Looks like they have managed it". You were the one who claimed Beerus >>> Broly, but haven't provided any evidence. Not the same as straight up busting a universe. This is a big difference between "You might be stronger" than "On-par or entered the domains and POTENTIALLY even surpassing it" Moreover Jiren's tiny little amount of Ki released made Beerus sweat like a piss fountain and when he released a "hint of his true power" made Goku revert back to his base form, because he has realised the gap between them. And questioned "How a mortal can release this much Ki?". Even if he did, this is a battle between him and Beerus, he's not gonna let him leave and find the Supreme Kai. As we all know Whis is a teacher/mentor of a God of Destruction, so he knows pretty much every nooks and cranny regarding the powers of a God of Destruction. Plus, Gogeta only lasts for 30 minutes. @thelostshinobi: Even if he can damage Goku, which I doubt, there is no way he is beating Goku in 15 minutes. And go to 3:06. @karkus: I asked you to provide proof first.If you can provide evidence to say that Broly is on Beerus' level then I will find it secondly... Marketing and announcement hypes don't count... @chasekilleen: I never claimed Broly was on Beerus's level. @phantasial: Dumb comparison considering Broly and Jiren both trashed stronger versions of SSG Goku, and while yes scaling is more important in cases like that DBS and GT don’t scale to each other which is why feats are more important. What is Beerus's level? Knowing Beerus he wouldn't just stand by when he senses someone stronger than him. Not the same as straight up busting a universe. Never has Whis nor anyone else stated that Broly nor Gogeta was more powerful. ready to take you anytime. There's nothing to shake in a void. Meaning he is much stronger than he was before. And Beerus has never shown his full strength, in the Super anime+manga, it's never stated that which percentage of power Beerus used.If Broly was such a threat to Beerus' position as a God, then why didn't he intervene, nor ever did Whis as well.Whis was merely playing aroud with Broly. SSB Gogeta VS UI Goku VS Beerus VS Jiren VS Broly(Battle Royale) Dragon Ball ... no one on this list is on his level, meaning if Gogeta doesn't take down Broly straight away, Broly will simply adapt and get too strong. then again gogeta can just kill the supreme kai and easily neg, Beerus grabs Gogeta by hair and says hakai. Ssj-ssj2 gogeta would be a good fight for beerus. Please OP, this is so one sided. so yeah, dozens of times uiversal is High multi universal. In August of last year, it was said that Broly was stronger than Beerus. Who wins? and it better not be ''my opinion''. Buu was going to destroy the mortal universe, there is nothing suggesting otherworld would have been destroyed too. there is no scaling that puts him above that. That literally makes no sense whatsoever. there was no mention of a ''mortal'' part, universe only. He literally says that his power is on a God of Destruction or surpassed it. When the match comes to an end, it is revealed that Belmod faked being knocked down and had taken no damage over the course of the match. beerus via feats locks at universal. Combine that with a power level that just seems naturally off the chart, and you have one good contender for giving Beerus a hell of a fight. All you doing is giving implications and marketing hype from the movie's trailers and announcements. Not to mention he wasn’t busting the universe, he was merely ripping through the barriers to parallel dimensions until the universe collapsed. @mainjp: There's no proof whatsoever to indicate Gogeta stronger than Beerus. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Not to mention he wasn’t busting the universe, he was merely ripping through the barriers to parallel dimensions until the universe collapsed. Beerus via superior inferior feats and even better worst scaling. @tony501: Belmod never got injured and in the anime he beat Beerus in arm wrestling and in both anime and manga Belmod is implied to be stronger than Beerus. They all show that something is possible. In Tournament of Power, Whis personally said that: "His powers has reached the domains of a God of Destruction or potentially has even surpassed it" when Jiren only released a bit of his Ki or that he was supressed heavily. @chasekilleen: Vegito in the Black Arc was said to rival Beerus by Shin in the manga, I feel like Post ToP he surpassed him given the fact it was said Gogeta=Vegito in one of the guid book I saw once for the movie, there is also the fact Jiren is confirmed by the angels to be high GoD Tier And stronger than Belmod who I believe is in the Top 5 strongest GoDs with Beerus and quitela at the Top with Jiren in their level more or less(Beerus can’t be that much stronger than Belmod) And Broly is evry bit as strong as Jiren or maybe more in raw power given Freiza’s statement and Goku’s as well, he also outmatched SSj Gogeta who is already in the GoDs range of power given the fact his base form is stronger than Blue Goku/Vegeta by the lock on piccolo when they fuse, Now Broly does lack the skills and experience Beerus has but Gogeta power is so great he can overcome it with nearly equal skills anyway given the fact he has Goku and Vegeta but I still favor Beerus due to UI, Hakai can be a factor but I think Gogeta will overpower it like Vegeta did to Toppo, UI is also a factor but unless he has its mastered form Beerus won’t beat him tho I feel like he has something under his sleeve given how unthreatened he was from Broly/Jiren when he encounters them tho MUI Goku did made him give his respect but there was no fear as tho Goku become his equal and not his superior, in the end Gogeta has to much power to lose his skills are enough to compete with any GoDs and just like Jiren didn’t need UI to match Goku so doesn’t Gogeta need to beat Beerus who’s only chance is if in fact he has mastered UI and keeps everyone in the dark for sports as he usually does when he fights given how strong he is. you claim it's dumb despite seeing inferior feats...so, feats > scaling. @karkus: Still doesn't prove Beerus is any means weaker does it? All I want is crystal clear answers from a credible source. Might means maybe, while probably means most likely. I'd be sweating too. How many times do we have to keep debunking this? don't worry if plot wants then there will be a transformation for goku and friends to overcome beerus and everyone above him. filler is canon to GT so i'm not sure why it's brought up. In the manga he was the only one who never got injured and in the anime he has beaten Beerus in arm wrestling challenge. 2 hours ago. The Super never stated how much power Beerus even used when fighting Goku God form.The movie said close to 70%, but clearly he was bluffing, but that statement is full of crap anyway, since when Super anime came out, it retconned that entire statement.The only mortal beings capable of beating Beerus are Goku Mastered UI and Jiren and also his limit breaker form. There wasn't any of the sort saying that Broly was stronger than Beerus. IF Beerus and Gogeta ever fights Beerus will still win since he's never brought out his true power in a match. still nothing. Gogeta, one of Dragon Ball's strongest, is the Metamoran fusion of Goku and Vegeta that was introduced to us canonically during Dragon Ball Super: Broly.Being a fusion, this form increases their power level tremendously, as seen in the movie, where they … It's just a gag episode, Champa and Beerus were never serious. I never said he did. We have not seen the true power of Beerus yet.This debate might never be answered, since there's technically no right or wrong answers. Thx for watching Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_.attila._145/ Already did. Made Goku scared just by showing 'a hint' of his true power. Just think back to Trunks cleaving Fused Zamasu in half. Heavily suppressed Jiren being stronger than Beerus doesn't fit with other statements such as that MUI "might" be stronger than Beerus. The real debate should be SSJB vegito vs Beerus. cat dies. Whilst Jiren was heavily supressed. In the anime Whis implied and in the manga Belmod was the only God of Destruction to dominate several other Gods of destruction. I can see what you were going for, beerus and goku weren't busting the universe either, they were causing magical waves that didn't bust the universe either. Goku stated that Broly might even surpass Beerus. @karkus: Go to 3:20...He literally says that his power is on a God of Destruction or surpassed it. So,SSJ4 Gogeta does the same thing like last time except,he toys around with him more and goes 50%.Since Vados is stronger than Whis,I put her at 90% SSJ4 Gogeta. Boosting Omega Shenron's power level to Beerus level won't be enough for a victory for Omega. He only said "probably" and "might" when he was comparing it Beerus. As you can see, there is no reasonable arguement that can put Gogeta anywhere near the kind of power even an SSB possesses, much less Beerus. And Beerus scales of off jiren and goku who shook infinite world of void, so yes he scales higher. The 'might' indicates that Broly is 'around' Beerus' level. It's pretty much been implied both in the manga and anime that Belmod is more powerful than Beerus. Whether stronger or not Broly is hovering around that Area and Gogeta stomped him. Made Goku scared just by showing 'a hint' of his true power.Gogeta/Broly did none of that even remotely close to what Jiren did when heavily surpressed try again. Stomp. Beerus playing around with him is reminiscent of 50% Frieza playing around with Namek-Saga Goku which was a power level difference of only ~20x. Using what Dragon Ball Nation said (I don't know his real name) Whis would be 80% SSJ4 Gogeta.So,Gogeta goes 100%,toys with Whis a little,then takes the fight seriously and ultimately,wins with a couple of scratches.Now,since Dragon Ball Super is out,why not cover Champa and Vados and the Omniking. Only way you can argue Gogeta at universal is if you scale off Buuhan based on a filler scene, meanwhile Beerus would have destroyed the Macrocasm(mortal universe and otherworld) which is more impressive than what Gogeta has done by feats. But Beerus isnt even sweating Vegeta, which causes him to use the Final Flash on Beerus in which he uses his left arm to flick the attack like nothing. That is a much better debate. Whis literally stated that Jiren when supressed was "in the domains of a God of Destruction or surpassing it" and even Belmod himself in the manga has admitted that Jiren is more powerful than him, combat wise. Going by feats for one character while scaling for the other is stupid, especially when Beerus(the character with feats) would scale massively above Buuhan as well. There are battles on this forum with SSJB Vegito vs Beerus. The Z movie is irrelevant since after Super came out. Universe 7 wasn’t a concept until DBS so it’s universal designation isn’t relevant. Thanks, I needed a light- Sanji. @deathwingterminatort1000: Please tell me how SSJ4 Gogeta does not stand up to SSB Goku, @deathwingterminatort1000: yea ik lol I was just fucking around with that post lmao. Base Gogeta (DBS) vs. Vegito Blue (DBS) Considering how insane and ludicrous the scaling and power creep between each arc is in DBS, I thought this would be an interesting match. MUI Goku was around Beerus full power and likely a bit stronger. Yeah, but we can get an idea that he used a good amount when he fought Champa in the baseball episode. Just can't imagine the power level of something like SSGSS3 Vegito or some crazy shit like that. He didn't have to be, he and Whis were right there and free to stop him if need be. He didn't say that. If we go by feats over scaling then we end up with stuff like SSG Ritual Goku > Jiren/broly. your argument is headcanon, the ''multiverse'' wasn't a thing, but the fact that the otherworld is a part of the universe was emphasised. Got in to a debate with a friend, I personally believe Gogeta can triumph Beerus but apparently his powers have been retconned to the point where he's near omnipotent. Now, go to 3:06 and see that Whis already knew Jiren was far from full power. Articles from a legitimate source? He's also had the training of Whis, and Angel and the most powerful being in Universe 6 (I think it's 6, maybe 7). The power levels for both these characters are unclear but it is implied that SSJB is beyond anything we've seen. Keep in mind this is Vegeta post Battle of Gods, Golden Frieza, Universe 6 vs 7, Black Goku/Future Trunks arc. He acknowledges that the power Jiren is showing right now isn't his full power, meaning he's likely gauging a Full Power Jiren. Tier: Low 2-C | At least Low 2-C. Name: Gogeta Origin: Dragon Ball. ?Then how do you know that Gogeta is stronger than Beerus just because he dominated Broly...Beerus never showed 100% of his power so Goku only compared Broly's power to Beerus when he fought against him in the God of Destruction arc...There's no evidence to suggest that Broly nor Gogeta was more powerful than Beerus.They might can push Beerus.But defeating him is ridiculous.Beerus has millions years more training and fighting experience than the two combined... Beerus UI (Whis said he haven't his master UI) >>>>>> Beerus full power (Goku can never see Beerus using FP) >>>> SSB gogeta >> LSSJ Broly > LB jiren = MUI Goku. Utter. SSJ4 Gogeta isn't even on a level with SSB Goku, and normal ki can't damage Beerus, you need God Ki. Since Champa is weaker than Beerus,I put him 30% SSJ4 Gogeta. He was comparing it to his fight with Beerus during his first time fighting Beerus in his God form. If the two brothers were serious then they would've actually released more of their Ki's. Frieza was literally there for 1 hour fighting Broly and not only was he able to have a few bruises and injury, but he was CONSCIOUS and he WAS IN HIS GOLDEN FORM! Super Saiyan God increases the power by x700. He has Whis to protect him, and is a good match for Broly himself. Omega was able to regenerate after a Big Bang Kamehameha from a massively stronger SSJ4 Gogeta so at equal power levels Omega should be able to regenerate from what Beerus has to throw at him. SSJG was already at the very least hundreds of times more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, and on top of that, SSJB is significantly more powerful than SSJG. Manga Beerus knows Ultra Instinct (Omen), and judging how full powered Broly couldn't even touch a casual Whis. -The only thing they know about each other is that Beerus is a god of destruction, and that SSJ4 Gogeta is a fusion of 2 saiyans ; And that each might be stronger than anything they've faced before. That's ironic. God Ki is needed in this fight, and even if SSJ4 Gogeta can damage hum with punches and kicks, it still most likely will be weaker than Beerus. In my honest opinion it's Beerus. I personally like Gogeta more, so for me, he wins. Goku said Broly was probably stronger than Beerus, and while he may not have seen his full power, he probably saw a decent amount in the baseball episode. His power will be retconned until he's more powerful than Zeno, Seriously Goku should wipe the floor with him by realistic scaling even without UI, OT: I think it's been established that Super>GT in terms of power so Beerus should win. According to Goku, Beerus is around the level of Broly. amrite? @karkus: What? A common debate. Gogeta vs Beerus Power Levels - Dragon Ball Super - YouTube In 2 or 3 hits, he dominated Frieza and KO'ED him in an instant. We see that even Beerus seems taken aback by the power of SSJB Kaiokenx10 Goku, so surely Vegito is over his power at least by some margin. @pickle-o: SSJ4 Gogeta is from GT and likely would not know this. Toppo a God of Destruction in training, the weakest God of Destruction is more powerful than Frieza. SSJ Broly was also the one who fought Golden Frieza, not LSSJ Broly, who was compared to Beerus. beerus locks at universal. That was the ever-expanding, strength gaining shockwaves, not the impact. what's an Infinite of nothing? He has seen Beerus going all out in the manga (GoDs battle royale) and in the anime (Beerus vs Champa). So,Gogeta goes 100% and again,wins with even more scratches.Finally, the Omniking.I say the Omniking is stronger than SSJ4 Gogeta. You did, and still haven't provided any evidence. what is this a joke? And? NEVER has Whis stated that Broly's power was near a God of Destruction's domain, not even remotely close... Beerus has never ever stated how many % he has used during the fight between Goku during his God form. The strongest SS4, Gogeta, fodderized Omega Shenron....who did nothing noteworthy. I have stated that Goku was only comparing it to Beerus when he was fighting with him at the start of the Super series when attained his God form. Goku Super Saiyan Blue/Kaioken forced Hit out of his dimensions twice. I don't see Beerus stomping Broly like Gogeta did. Beerus power level at 100% is around 3 billion. The threat was the after-effect, and only over time. Bloodmatch. Broly on the other hand neither made Beerus bat an eye, nor did he make Goku and Vegeta break their own limits and also Goku and Vegeta never used their Kaioken and Evolution (respectively) So we can definitely say that didn't try their absolute hardest. Did the authors make Trunks overpowered for no particular reason other than fanservice? Yeah, they show something is possible, but the words connote varying degrees of likelihood. That says Gogeta or Broly is on Beerus'level. And Jiren is the only being next to Goku Ultra Instinct that's shown to be able to can fight on par with Beerus' level. Gogeta should win. Beerus in the manga pretty much bested the entire other Gods of Destruction and also without trying whatsoever one hit KO'ED Vegeta in his Mastered Super Saiyan Blue form, a form that's on par with Vegito Blue and he took Vegeta out in one shot, that's when he was serious, to teach Vegeta a lesson to not be cocky. SS4 gogeta (dozens of times stronger)> SS4 goku (probably stronger) >= SS vegito > Buuhan (universal). I could point to some scaling, but why should I bother. Prove me wrong that Gogeta Blue is not stronger than Beerus.Because Beerus never worried about Broly. And Belmod never got injured by Liqeueur's attacks and at the end, Belmod was the only God of Destruction that never got injured, despite the fact that he was attacked multiple times... Belmod even confirms that "Jiren is a being that never loses, no matter who he's up against"For a someone that a God of Destruction cannot defeat means that the other individual is more powerful than the Gods. Not with collision. So yeah he might legit be near Angle tier. Gogeta 100x BBK > Gogeta SS4 (dozens of times stronger than an SS4) > SS4 (>= SS vegito) > SS vegito > Buuhan (near-universal). Jiren heavily surpressed scared Beerus, to the point that he was sweating and was nearly in despair. This isn't like the T.O.P. In the 40 minutes we've seen Jiren broke Goku's and Vegeta's limits many, many times, by giving them a massive Zenkai boost. Intent: To Kill, Gogeta is NOT playing around. @mainjp: When Broly attacked Frieza in his Golden form for an hour, not only Frieza didn't sustain any life threatening injuries, but Frieza was still in his Golden form.Toppo a God of Destruction in training, theorectically the weakest God of Destruction, absolutely thrashed Frieza without trying whatsoever and Jiren knocked Frieza out cold in one shot.Gogeta smashing dimensions is nothing new since Super Buu nearly succeded in doing that whilst Gohan was absorbed.That's not impressive at all... Jiren's 'hint of his true power' made Goku revert back to his base form, because he realized how powerful he truly was and Vegeta said that Jiren's Ki was the 'heaviest ki I have ever felt'. 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